A bit of a trip report

A first bit - I%26#39;m about to have an early night, so I%26#39;ll post more tomorrow. However, following on from tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187147-i14-k31593… (#3)

I ate the ludicrously expensive breakfast (€12) on Sunday morning, sooner than traipse around searching for something cheaper. It was perfectly pleasant but even if I%26#39;d been feeling OK, it would have been virtually impossible to eat 12 euros%26#39; worth of bread, cheese and ham. It may have been the meds the dentist gave me just before I left the UK but something sure didn%26#39;t sit right with me the night before. This won%26#39;t be mentioned again, except to explain it kind of put a block on any plans I%26#39;d had for fancy eating - just urgh, it wouldn%26#39;t have been worth it. On the plus side, I abandoned the meds and could drink the odd glass of red wine.....

I bought a mobilis ticket and headed out ot the George V metro station and St. George%26#39;s Anglican Church on Auguste Vacquerie for the service. I have minimal orientation skills, that%26#39;s why I like the metro so much, it goes in straight lines. What do you mean, It doesn%26#39;t? It looks like it on the maps.... Coming above ground is always a different matter and I can usually be counted on to take the wrong direction. Fortunately, there are plenty of corners in Paris where I can orientate on junctions - and the street signage is excellent. Inevitably, I found I was going the wrong way, so turned 180 degrees and set off. I%26#39;d not gone two steps when - there was only the Arc de Triomphe just standing there in the near distance. Just there, just standing there. It was a great moment. I%26#39;m not a great lover of The Sights in any city, I don%26#39;t like to Do The Tourist Thing, so I never know how to answer %26#39;What should I see?%26#39; questions - surely we should see what interest us and anything else is a bonus.

This was some bonus! Imagine to yourselves, a crisp, autumn morning, sun pouring down through browning leaves and the Arc -de Triomphe whispering your name..... I have to assume that Parisians are used to respectable looking women suddenly bursting into smiles: if they weren%26#39;t, they are now, because I did it a lot. I went and took photos, lots of them, and some even without traffic.

The Anglican church was fascinating, a modern building on the outside and the church itself under ground, all in brick. Very impressive. Very good singing too from the choir.

Metro back to Bastille to change for the opera - I was going to an early performance at the Theatre des Champs Elysees. Still didn%26#39;t want a whole meal, so I stopped at a crepe stand at the end of Boulevard Richard Lenoir/Bastille and got a plain one with sugar. Back to the metro. This time the straight lines worked fine - but I got lost on the surface again. I got through two Printemps sponsored city maps in 3 days. I eventually got on target and walked along the Avenue Montaigne, very swish - and on the street corner, by Alma Marceau station - there was only the Eiffel Tower looking at me! It seems the sights of Paris were determined to sneak up on me and say hello. Took lots of early evening sunshine shots, annoyed a woman in a kiosk by not having less than a 5 euro note for a twix - I still didn%26#39;t feel much like food but having only eaten the crepe since about 85 cents worth of breakfast around 8 a.m., I was fearful that Andromache would be drowned out by the sound of my stomach rumbling.

The theatre was pleasant and easy to navigate, even without the pay-as-you-go usherette. Andromache in concert form was not wonderful though, I don%26#39;t think I need to have bothered with the Twix. And the performance was a bit am-dram sounding. Why stay with something if you%26#39;re not enjoying it? So I left at half time.

The E. Tower was still waiting, beckoning, so I walked back up and took more photos of her; and walked and walked a lot more. That%26#39;s the thing I noticed most about Paris - it was always tempting to walk just a bit further and a bit more. I spent my time taking great, striding steps through it all. As striding as my little legs can do, anyway.

After that, it still felt early, so I dived onto the RER at Pont d%26#39;Alma and got out at Notre Dame. I thought I%26#39;d let another Sight take me by surprise. It was beautiful, although the parvis was very crowded and it felt not threatenting exactly, not at all in fact, but just a bit uncontrolled, and I could see how all these tourists together could be a scammers paradise. Not that I saw any, the whole trip. I went into the church where Mass was being sung. I loved the flat-screen screens on many pillars to show people exactly what was going on. And the music was glorious.

I RER/metroed back to the hotel area. Still didn%26#39;t want a whole meal, so I bought a baguette jambon cru crudite at a station outlet - Gare d%26#39;Austerlitz, I think - and took it home to my room. I opened the double windows over the wrought-iron balcony front (no balcony, just the front, don%26#39;t know what you call them) and let in some warmish evening Paris air, just a modicum of traffic noise, it being a Sunday. I ate the baguette and my one remaining Twix finger, drank some red wine from the mini-bar (chilled red wine? hm) and toasted Paris. C%26#39;etait si bon.

The second day ended.

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The market! I knew when I looked at it that my report seemed a bit empty round the middle bit of the day. I went to the Bastille/Richard Lenoir market on the way back from church. A dozen shawls bought and some cheap jewellery - but fun. It was definitely worth a visit, and I%26#39;ll make sure any future trips (and I%26#39;m planning the March one now) will include a Sunday.

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I love this report Ailidh. Thank you. You sound just like me when I first spotted the arc de triomphe %26quot;standing there, just standing there!%26quot; I can also empathise with you wanting to just stride on a wee bit further - I%26#39;ve never walked so much in my entire life! As for your orientation after comng out of the %26#39;straight lines%26#39; of the metro, I discovered a strange thing when I came up to ground. I could always tell what direction the river was. Isn%26#39;t that weird?

Thanks again and so glad you had the trip you wished for. Can%26#39;t wait for the rest.

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I%26#39;m so glad that Paris was at her her flirtatious best for you. She never seems to tire of the game. Watch her, though. She%26#39;ll walk the buckles off your shoes...

Sorry you missed out on the food, but that%26#39;s what the next trip is for...

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%26lt;%26lt;That%26#39;s the thing I noticed most about Paris - it was always tempting to walk just a bit further and a bit more. %26gt;%26gt;

Yes, isn%26#39;t it strange (and wonderful).

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lovely report so glad you enjoyed it you%26#39;re right about the Bastille market we always try to squeeze in an extra sunday ,looking forward to your next trip in march

jim

France-Canal Boat company and route

We are four adults planning 5-7 days on a canal boat in France in early October. It seems from the forums that for first timers the Canal du Midi is the most scenic. Can anyone clarify the best departure and arrival points in that area and which direction is recommended. This may seem a strange question, however, is it considered best to have as few locks as possible or the more the better ?!Also there seem to be mixed reports about the best boats to hire-I have checked out a few of the websites, however, am more confused than ever. We would like something reasonably clean and comfortable. many thanks

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%26lt;%26lt;the Canal du Midi is the most scenic.%26gt;%26gt;

The Canal du Midi is a good location for a first cruise. There towns along the way are generally spaced evenly making exploration and re-provisioning relatively easy.

%26lt;%26lt;Can anyone clarify the best departure and arrival points in that area%26gt;%26gt;

This depends upon the company you use which may depend upon rental cost and availability. My one strong recommendation would be that the departure and arrival points be different. One way travel keeps the route fresh and maintains a continued sense of discovery. In my opinion the return portion of an out and back over canal portions recently viewed is anticlimactic.

%26lt;%26lt;which direction is recommended.%26gt;%26gt;

Direction of course applies to one way travel and has no bearing on your ability to enjoy boating. For any perceived advantage going one direction, I can give corresponding advantages going the other. I have written that I recommend easterly travel along the Canal du Midi but this had nothing to do with the direction of the water flow, rather to allow time on a 10 or 14 day journey in which to venture out upon the Etang du Thau and see (up close) one of the world%26#39;s largest oyster beds.

%26lt;%26lt;is it considered best to have as few locks as possible or the more the better%26gt;%26gt;

Too many locks, more than 5 or 6 as a daily average, can really become a lot of work (as with some routes in Burgundy). Too few locks, one or two in a week (as in the Camargue) will not give a new crew sufficient experience to develop a rhythm and proficiency or to really understand the process.

%26lt;%26lt;Also there seem to be mixed reports about the best boats to hire%26gt;%26gt;

I recommend the following companies:

http://www.franceafloat.com/

http://www.leboat.com/

http://www.locaboat.com/

http://www.nicols.com/

http://www.rive-de-france.com/

www.minervoiscruisers.com/english/main/

As for the specific model you might select, it%26#39;s a matter of personal taste, budget, and the number travelling.

You might try a forum search using the words %26quot;Canal du Midi%26quot; and read what has already been written. There have been changes in the canal%26#39;s 400 year history but there is a great deal of pertinent information in the forum archives readily at hand.

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Many thanks for this information. I hope you do not mind a few more specific questions now.

To clarify, from reading many many forums, it seems a good route is easterly from Castelnaudery to Port Cassfieres.

Is this reasonable for a seven day trip ?

I have looked at all the websites for canal boat hire and can not find any that specifically have boats avail to be picked up in Castelnaudery and left in Port Cassifieres.

Is it worth liaising directly with the companies to find out if that is possible or do you know of a good company that definitely does this ?

What is the usual daily routine along this route in terms of boating time-hours per day- and time available to walk, cycle dine and sightsee ?

Is there a recommended chart/book which gives the lock opening times and is forward planning before arriving in France recommended in terms of what distance per day, what lock times to aim for and where to pull up for the night ?

That might be enough questions at this stage ! Any info gratefully received.

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%26lt;%26lt;Is this reasonable for a seven day trip ?%26gt;%26gt;

Yes

%26lt;%26lt;I have looked at all the websites for canal boat hire and can not find any that specifically have boats avail to be picked up in Castelnaudary and left in Port Cassifieres.%26gt;%26gt;

The company with this option is called Le Boat.

http://www.leboat.com

%26lt;%26lt;Is it worth liaising directly with the companies to find out if that is possible%26gt;%26gt;

Contact le Boat directly through their website.

%26lt;%26lt;What is the usual daily routine along this route in terms of boating time-hours per day- and time available to walk, cycle dine and sightsee ?%26gt;%26gt;

I am presently out of town and do not have immediate access to my charts to give you specific touring information. Plan on several hours a day traveling on the canal, with plenty of time to visit the adjacent communities. It is possible to bike almost the entire length of the canal.

%26lt;%26lt;Is there a recommended chart/book which gives the lock opening times and is forward planning before arriving in France recommended in terms of what distance per day, what lock times to aim for and where to pull up for the night ?%26gt;%26gt;

Again I do not have my charts but lock times are contingent upon season. The only real concern is near Beziers; the 6 locks of Forserannes are one way only, twice a day during the busy summer months. There is also a passenger boat running through these locks that always takes priority so plan ahead.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonserannes_Locks

You can stop anywhere you like. There are several ports along the way and if you use Le Boat, they have ports all along the canal where you can tie up and connect electricity for free.

%26lt;%26lt;That might be enough questions at this stage !%26gt;%26gt;

There are never too many questions. Ask as often as you need.

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Many thanks again for your very prompt reply.

I am hoping you will not mind me taking a completely different tack.

I am wondering what the route Corbigny to Dompierre in the Loire/Nivernais region is like.

For some reason the Locaboat company appeals to me.They do have a route in the Canal Du Midi but not from Castelnaudry to Port C.I know the route travelled is more important than the boat, nevertheless, I would appreciate any comments on this alternative to Canal Du Midi from the point of view of scenery, places to visit along the way, weather in early October and manageability of Locks.

Many thanks.

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just a couple of comments. Early October is about the limit for doing the canals in southern France. The days can be good but the nights and mornings start to get cold. Most boats, however, have heating. Re locks: Don%26#39;t worry about the number of locks. After you%26#39;ve done a couple of locks you have it down to a fine art. Also in October you won%26#39;t have to hang around waiting your turn to get into a lock. You%26#39;ll sail (sorry, motor) straight in when you get to a lock. June, July and August are the worst months. You spend a lot of the day just waiting your turn to get into a lock. Almost 100% of the hire boat companies have a good reputation. Enjoy your trip.

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Thank you for your comments about weather and the locks and reassurance that most boat companies are ok.

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Just noted your comment/question about........

%26quot;I am wondering what the route Corbigny to Dompierre in the Loire/Nivernais region is like.%26quot;

In October in France we are in Autumn. The further north you are the colder it will be. In the south the good weather lasts until about mid November. The nights are fresh but the days are still warm and sunny. Further north, the nights are colder and the days can be chilly also. In October, I%26#39;d stay as far south as possible. Most hire boat companies shut up shop at the end of October. Generally, there are no people using hire boats on the canals after the end of October.The boats are out of the water being serviced for the following season (April to October).

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That is a good point and I appreciate your advice. We will stick to the Canal du Midi route which from all accounts sounds beautiful.

Thank you to those who have helped with our planning, it has made all the difference and it is fantastic to have such generosity from people all over the world sharing their travel experiences. I hope one day I can offer some helpful information also !

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As a first time traveler, I think that overall the Canal du Midi is the best choice because there really is a great number of places to see and easily explore. Please perform a forum search with %26quot;Canal du Midi%26quot; as the subject because over the years, much has been written about what to see, what to expect, and what to explore along this route.

Should you have additional questions, those of us who travel the canal often shall be very pleased to assist.

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Many thanks. Interestingly a travel agent friend of a friend commented that October is almost too late to do the canals because of the weather and chance of being confined on a boat in the rain. Unfortunately this is the only time we have so willhave to hope for the best. I am sure there will be questions later.

Rue Cail and Pasage Brady

Which metros are the best for Passage Brady and rue de Cail (or Cali) please,

Thanks

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Passage Brady is just a few steps from metro Château d%26#39;Eau. It is also an easy walk from both Strasbourg-Saint Denis and Gare de l%26#39;Est if you are on another metro line and don%26#39;t want to bother with the connection.

For rue Cail, the best station is La Chapelle (line 2), followed by Gare du Nord.

Christmas in Strasbourg

Hi,

I am thinking of spending Christmas Eve night and Christmas Day in Strasbourg, Are shops and restaurants still open or is everything shut down because of a public holiday? Also are the Christmas markets open at this time? What %26#39;Christmassy%26#39; activities are there to do?

Do you think Christmas is better spent in Strasbourg or Paris?

Thanks!

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You%26#39;ll find answers here:

www.noel.strasbourg.eu

There%26#39;s an English language option.

RER to the latin quarter

Is it correct that i can get one train direct to st michael from cdg? If so how much is this likely to cost? Many thanks

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Yes. Any RER train from CDG will stop at St. Michel/Notre Dame. Fare is 8€50 one way.

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What%26#39;s the best way out of St. Michel with luggage? Is there an escalator there? Or better to walk to the Notre Dame exit? (coming in from CDG also)

Thanks :o)

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The Notre Dame exit is the only one at the St-Michel/Notre Dame stop that has escalators all the way up to the street. Please note, though, that there is NOT AN ESCALATOR DOWN for your return. There is an elevator, which is currenlty under repair, on the Left Bank side right at rue de Xavier Privas and the Quai. It wasn%26#39;t functioning the whole month I was there (just returned 2 days ago).

For elevator and escalator service DOWN, you can go to the Gare du Nord. They have both going to the RER-B level.

Hotel le Petit Paris' meteoric rise

I have been reading the hotel reviews for about a month now and am particularly interested in the reviews for this hotel. I am reminded of the topic on how to spot generic hotel reviews. I just counted up the reviews of this hotel and as of this writing, of the 25 reviews, 18 are first time contributors and very few of those have any specific facts about the hotel. This really teaches me that you have to watch the reviews over time and read the reviews, not just look at the hotel%26#39;s position on the chart. Too bad we couldn%26#39;t have a list of things to look out for for casual users of Trip Advisor.

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I know exactly what you mean, skatermom. I have a similar situation on the Cape forum with this place:

tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g41555-d267425-…

I do think that TA is trying to do the best they can with reviews. It has to be an incredibly daunting job to sift through the thousands of reviews that come in. (impossible, imo)

I agree it is best to read Many reviews to get a feel for a place. I wonder if hotel owners are suggesting that guests write a glowing review for their place while the guest is still there. I just wish we weren%26#39;t reading such Biased reviews. I%26#39;ve not posted a review on the property I referenced because it would be the lone negative review and would be summarily dismissed by those reading it so it would have no value at this point. Also, my visit was a few years ago. Since that time, I%26#39;ve seen nothing but Glowing reports. I find that fascinating.

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If you read a lot of the hotel reviews on this site, the fake ones are easy to spot.

First time contributions by people who never logged on the site again is a hint, but there are many others.

Creepy, robotic %26quot;Stepford wives%26quot; tone, with short sentences and hotel brochure vocabulary. High praise of the breakfast with the extensive list of everything available on the buffet. Occasional recommandation for the wonderful restaurant next door. Specific spelling or grammar mistake that keeps coming back. Tons of positive votes for the fake reviews, tons of negative votes for the real all-the-more-negative reviews, almost no votes for the real positive or neutral reviews.

Those hotels should be avoided like the plague, because it shows their only goal : trick people into booking them. That and being oblivious to the critique, being absolutely sure that nothing is wrong with their establishment.

On the brighter side, I like to read the George V reviews every now and then. I believe they are all perfectly real, but it%26#39;s a lot of fun anyway.

%26quot;Telepathic service%26quot;, %26quot;I went there for one night three years ago and the manager remembered my kids names%26quot;, %26quot;the bell boy teached tricks to my dog%26quot;, %26quot;the breakfast bus boy spoke fluent Japanese%26quot;... this place seems out of this world

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«a list of things to look out for for casual users of Trip Advisor»

I think that would be an excellent thing to implement on the part of TA.

I see these phony posts all the time on TA forums. First (and often last) time poster who sings the virtues of a vacation rental in ad-agency language. These posts are easy to spot if you read thousands of posts every year on TA but, and this is important, the %26quot;casual%26quot; visitor on TA can%26#39;t see the sinister aspect of this.

I%26#39;ve said it before, TA should do more than just respond to complaints registered through their robotic %26quot; Report inappropriate content%26quot; link. Their overall credibility depends on getting to the bottom of this problem. It%26#39;s not rocket science. The exact source of a post is easily traceable if the system is designed to do it. TA won%26#39;t change their lazy ways without strong demand by their users.

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Hello Skatermom, I%26#39;m not as concerned as you about the folks who post one review. That%26#39;s because I am a regular contributor to TA and I haven%26#39;t posted an actual review for years. At one point someone at TA asked me to post some reviews and I did a flurry of them all at once but this just doesn%26#39;t interest me. I believe that folks generally are more inclined to post something negative rather than take the time to add positive remarks, at least that%26#39;s my experience.

What you might want to do is select a few %26#39;top contenders%26#39; based on the TA reviews and then check what other sources, professional reviewers, have to say. Even go to go the the bookstore and look through actual BOOKS, the guides.

Of course you could book with your local French specialist, the one who has taken a course, books accommodations in France as a living, has up to date information and resources, and may have even seen the properties that you are considering. Just a thought.

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I can%26#39;t speak to the meteoric rise of any particular property but, with regard to first time posters, you should be aware that TA has recently made a concerted effort to encourage all lodging establishments to ask their guests to submit reviews to TA. Since most folks who travel have never contributed to TA, it is not surprising that many reviews are by first timers. Perhaps the hotelier/innkeeper that has recent reviews has been working with TA, within their guidelines, to increase their on-line presence. In any event, I think it%26#39;s wise to back up TA reviews with trusted guide book reviews like Fodors and Frommers and to look at the specifics of the on-line reviews. An anonymous lone voice of praise or negativity is always suspect to me so I use professional advice first and then consult on-line reviews.

With regard to negative reviews and forum comments... TA users should also be aware that some people have %26quot;vendettas%26quot; against places, either because they are competitors or have some personal issues that color their judgement. In the case of Fort Hill Bed and Breakfast that Fussyguest has an %26quot;issue%26quot; with, I can say from personal experience, that they well deserve their #1 rating for B+B lodging on Cape Cod. They consistently earn editor%26#39;s choice status with a number of guide books/local publications and have been in business for over 20 years. Since word of mouth plays a big roll in a place as small as Cape Cod, it seems highly unlikely that they could be so well thought of if they were not offering a quality stay.

I do not believe that Fussy Guest has first hand knowledge of this award-winning small B+B (Fort Hill in Eastham, Cape Cod) as she has a family home in a neighboring town (Chatham). Additionally, she consistently chooses to review/recommend hotels and resorts....she does not appear to stay in small B+Bs. Could her negative comments about a small B+B in a neighboring town be a personal vendetta? I wonder how TA deals with this type of poster?

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Hi -

I agree that it%26#39;s necessary to check more than one review source, and do exactly as yellowbird does. I always recommend www.venere.com as an accommodation resource and usually advise posters to check the venere reviews as well as those on TA. Since venere is a booking engine, they can ensure that the reviewers have actually stayed at the property involved, unlike TA. The combination of guide book referrals, venere reviews and the TA reviews, gives our readers a fighting chance of ending up in the sort of accommodation they prefer.

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« Since most folks who travel have never contributed to TA, it is not surprising that many reviews are by first timers.»

It%26#39;s the unsolicited first-time posts that _read_ as advertising on TA that I have a huge problem with. If the OP comes back and participates in the thread I seldom have a problem but many OPs don%26#39;t. Those are automatically suspect.

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Well on forum posts I agree that a singleton that reads like an advertisement probably is one. But, for reviews in the lodging section I do not necessarily think that a poster who only posts once is bogus. As I mentioned, most travelers do not post reviews on TA. However, now that TA is urging lodging establishments to request reviews from their guests, I expect that the TA word is spreading and that more first time users are posting. This only works if the reviews are requested by the lodging establishments, not solicited with promises, and if posters are truthful, not vindictive. Therein lies the problem that we agree upon. How does one distinguish between honest reviews/statements and bogus reviews/statements (both positive and negative)?

I believe that the US govt. is working on a proposal that would make bribing patrons with gifts in order to get positive reviews illegal. How they would enforce it is a big question.

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How the heck does it become no 2 in Paris out of 1891 hotels with only 25 reviews. Seems to me TA is making a rod for it`s own back encouraging hotels to solicit reviews.

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TA is VERY secretive about how it arrives at a rank. I know that they totally restructured the Rome ranking when a small B+B in the outlying area consistently came up #1, beating out the outraged hotels that participate in Expedia, Oribitz and other partners. I bet those hotels screamed and managed pressure TA into banishing the small B+B to the obscure town designation under the guise of restructuring. I would love to know how TA arrives at its rank for a particular hotel.

Nightlife w/college student-problem w/research

Staying in the 6th w/my college age niece over Thanksgiving weekend whose priority seems to be partying. Nothing wrong w/that but we%26#39;re too old to go clubbing. Any ideas for fun bars w/ dancing? I am making a distinction between %26quot;clubs%26quot; and fun bars that have good music %26amp; dancing to eliminate super-loud house, techno or trance music. We don%26#39;t need to stay in the 6th for nightlife, but anything walking distance would be helpful since it%26#39;s impossible to get a taxi late night. Also looked for alternate entertainment such as a movie at the Rex, but nothing appropriate that week. Live music at the Olympia, also nothing. Walking tour-too cold to walk for 3 hours in late November. Bateau mouches-not so exciting for a 20 year old-afterward there would still be lots of time left in the night. She won%26#39;t be ready to appreciate the Opera or the Ballet for another 15 years, not to mention we don%26#39;t feel like spending hundreds of euros for cultural events that aren%26#39;t going to be met enthusiastically. Sorry to sound cheap, we%26#39;re willing to spend some money on nightlife, but already spending gobs on accomodations, meals, transportation, etc. so hoping to find budget friendly ideas. We%26#39;ve plenty of youngster-friendly daytime ideas: Montmartre visit followed by crepes, walking from Isle St. Louis to Notre Dame w/stop at Berthillon, two-hour ninja attack on the Louvre w/the obvious highlights, daytrip to Reims for a champagne tasting at Veuve or Taittinger, photo opportunity at the Trocadero followed by walk across the Pont to the Eiffel Tower %26amp; up to the top, tour of the Opera Garnier followed by cocoa %26amp; pastries at Laduree %26amp; anything else we can think of that will enable us to sneak in cultural %26amp; historic sites with a spoonful of (sometimes literally) sugar. All these are fun, but those hours between the end of dinner and 3:00 a.m. are hard to fill so I was hoping to find some reasonably fun spots where the crowd is young enough to be interesting to her %26amp; old enough that we don%26#39;t feel out of place. Help?!

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Do you know directly from your niece that she%26#39;s %26quot;not ready to appreciate%26quot; the opera or ballet? If not, ask her. My daughters all loved both, along with various other cultural events, before they got were old enough for high school, and continue to love both, to this day.

I%26#39;m always in favour of handing a younger person a guide book and asking for a wish list. It%26#39;s much the easiest way of finding out what would be of interest, and you may be surprised at what she finds intriguing. Additionally, she may not be so interested in late, late nights after having walked all over Paris all day before hand, so I don%26#39;t think you need loads of ideas. A couple will probably suffice. Consider a jazz club while you%26#39;re doing your research. Paris has always had several good ones.

BTW, the staff/bar tender at any club will happily telephone a cab for you at any hour.

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I have not taken my daughter to the opera, but she does like the ballet and symphony. She likes plays too, but probably not so much in French. She will be 12 next month, so I certainly don%26#39;t think your niece is too young. Perhaps she is not interested, but I wouldn%26#39;t blame it on her age. Also, probably her idea of partying is not with her aunt/uncle (I don%26#39;t know this for sure of course, but am just judging from my college years.) I know I could not have stayed up until 3AM after walking all over Paris all day, and my daughter did not argue at all about going to bed around 10:00 or 11:00 (we went in the summer and that was when it got dark), sometimes she even went to bed earlier on her own:)

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If you are planning to cram all those daytime activities into one weekend, she will probably be exhausted long before 3am!

I have %26#39;kids%26#39; in this age group/a little younger and what they like doing in Paris at night is: seeing the Eiffel Tower lit up, watching street performers, visiting the car showrooms on the Champs Elysees, visiting the Tour Montparnasse, sitting in a cafe and watching the world go by, walking by the river....all the usual touristy stuff, but lit up at night. They would not want to be cooped up in a cinema/concert/theatre whilst in Paris, those are activities to do back home in the UK.

At 20, she is old enough(and some!) to ask her what she wants to do.

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http://www.chez-felix.com/index2.html

This place might meet your criteria. Hard to find a place for opera loving aunt and a partying loving niece to both have fun in.

There are tons of 20 year olds out partying on this street at night.

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You might be surprised to find that a walking tour might not be bad at all in late November. Our weather is similar to that of DC this time of year...

It will be chilly, but probably not snow...and walking keeps you pretty warm.

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I fervently hope that you are underestimating your 20 year old college student niece. Perhaps you could give her a couple of guidebooks (I would suggest the DK Eyewitness Guide and at least one of Access, Lonely Planet, Let%26#39;s Go or Michelin) and ask her to come up with a list of places she would like to go and things she would like to see. Invite her to go online and research all the special events that will be taking place in Paris while you are there, in addition to the same old top ten %26quot;must sees%26quot; in Paris. Give her a deadline — perhaps a week — and if she can%26#39;t come up with a better list than yours in that time you might seriously consider leaving her at home where she would apparently be happier in any case. Why spend %26quot;gobs%26quot; of money taking your niece to Paris if the only thing she is going to show any interest in is where she can party until 3 a.m.?

(Am I the only one who is appalled that you should be willing to provide or your niece should expect to receive regular bribes (of sugar yet!!!) to persuade her to put up with the pain of spending a vacation in Paris? She%26#39;s an adult woman for Pete%26#39;s sake, not a 5 year old child who needs to be rewarded for being brave when she got her flu shot...)